Digging deeper: archeology & the miraculous

This is a satirical, hypothetical discussion between me and a Christian apologist. The purpose of this page is to ponder what archeology can prove about the miraculous? It also helps to point out the blatant double standards and bias in examining this sort of evidence many religious people have. 

In Shinto tradition, the Ise Grand Shrine is dedicated to the sun goddess Amaterasu. According to tradition, the Japanese imperial line descends from her, linking divine ancestry to a specific sacred site.

In Islam, Mecca is associated with several foundational miracles. The Kaaba is believed to have been originally built by Abraham and Ishmael. The Black Stone set into the Kaaba is traditionally said to have descended from heaven, and the nearby Zamzam well is believed to have miraculously sprung forth when Hagar searched desperately for water for her son Ishmael.

All over religious history real and historically attested places are intertwined with accounts of supernatural events, forming the basis for ongoing pilgrimage and religious identity.

Christian apologist: PFFFFTTT! Ludicrous! There is no way that a real or historical location alone proves those miracles actually occurred. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Those may have been real historical people as well, according to some ancient texts. However, just because those people were real does not mean they actually performed miracles. Lip trill!

TM: In Greek mythology, Zeus is born under threat because his father Cronus has been told that one of his children will overthrow him. Cronus therefore devours each child at birth. Zeus’s mother Rhea hides the infant in a cave on Crete and tricks Cronus with a stone wrapped in swaddling clothes. Zeus survives, grows up in secret, and eventually fulfills the prophecy by overthrowing Cronus.

In Hindu tradition, the infant Krishna is threatened by the tyrant king Kamsa, who hears a prophecy that Devaki’s eighth child will kill him. Kamsa imprisons Devaki and kills her earlier children. When Krishna is born, his father secretly carries him across the flooding Yamuna River to safety in the village of Gokul, where he is raised by foster parents. Kamsa repeatedly attempts to kill the child through demons and assassins, but Krishna survives each attempt.

In Roman legend, the twins Romulus and Remus are condemned to death as infants because their existence threatens the rule of the king Amulius. They are placed in a basket and abandoned on the Tiber River. Instead of dying, they are rescued and suckled by a she-wolf, later growing up to overthrow Amulius and found the city of Rome.

In Akkadian legend, the story of Sargon of Akkad was born to a priestess and secretly placed in a basket of reeds and set afloat on the Euphrates River. He was rescued by a gardener and later rose to become the founder of the Akkadian Empire.

Christian apologist: Clearly, a common folklore motif in the ancient world is a threat to a future leader, hero, or god. I see no reason to take these stories as historical fact. Ancient people reused these motifs and fictional stories in various contexts and associated them with different historical figures.

The great king of Babylon, Hammurabi, is also portrayed as receiving his laws from the Mesopotamian god of justice and law, Šamaš, with his foot set on a mountain.

Christian apologist: Another folklore motif. Yes, these fictional gods were associated with mountains. So what? People believed all sorts of strange things in antiquity.

TM: Even some modern Jews believe that the entire nation heard God speak to them and that the oral Torah was given to Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20). God revealed Himself to an extraordinary number of people simultaneously.

Christian apologist: Of course! We have the Bible to prove this true story!

TM: In Genesis 32:24-30, the patriarch Jacob wrestles with God. This scene is much like the one in Greek mythology where Menelaus wrestles with the god Proteus. Both have been gone for a long time and then wrestled with a god. This is the final obstacle before the return home. In their wrestling, they both hold their opponents still for a long time, passing a kind of test. They each consult with the god and are blessed with a privileged position and a long life for themselves and their families. Jacob becomes a patriarch, and Menelaus a hero.

Christian apologist: The biblical story is obviously true and real. The tremendously influential and ancient Greek civilisation copied the factual histories of the short-lived micronations of Israel and Judea and incorporated them into their mythology.

The sons born from these unions become the ancestors of the Moabites and Ammonites.
In Greek mythology, according to the myth preserved in Metamorphoses by Ovid, Myrrha (also called Smyrna) offends Aphrodite, who causes her to fall in love with her father, Cinyras. With the help of her nurse, Myrrha secretly enters her father’s bed at night, and he unknowingly has intercourse with her without realizing her identity.

Christian apologist: I really have no explanation for why the ancient Greeks would want to incorporate the factual histories of the Jews into their mythology. But that is clearly what happened - repeatedly.

TM: The Mahabharata (Great Story of the Bharatas) is an ancient mythical story and the longest epic in the world. It is four times longer than the Christian Bible. The Mahabharata tells of a long power struggle between two rival families, the Pandavas, and the Kauravas. Both of these families are descendants of a king called Bharata, whose name derives from an early name for India. Its basic story involves an enormous war on the Indian peninsula, involving millions of soldiers between the two sides of King Bharata’s family. Mahabharata's heroes include gods Indra, Agni, and Shiva, demons and demonesses, demigods, and heavenly sages. During the battles, a vimana is flown by King Shalwa as he throws lightning bolts from the sky, causing explosions and decimating entire cities and their armies. The Mahabharata War took place on the battlefield of Kurukshetra in northern India, near Delhi. Unluckily, none of the bodies of the millions of soldiers who fought in the Mahabharata War have been found there, supposedly because their bodies were burnt.

Christian apologist: What? You expect me to believe that? Such outlandish stories – gods and spaceships – with no real, concrete evidence to support them. Ridiculous! Lip trill!

TM: A defining event in the Hebrew Scriptures is the so-called Exodus of the Hebrew people from Egypt under the leadership of Moses. Moses freed the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt and led them to freedom in the ‘promised’ land of Canaan. On the way, God appears to Moses, revealing his name (Exodus 3:14). This account attributes deliverance from slavery to the miraculous intervention of God. God parted the waters of the sea that had prevented the escape of the Hebrews from Egypt. As they crossed the Sinai Peninsula, they were guided by a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. They were also fed by God with manna and quail and provided with water miraculously. There is, however, very little circumstantial evidence for the Exodus.

South Asian traditions frequently describe spiritual powers gained through meditation or devotion. Sikh teachings hold that advanced practitioners may develop extraordinary abilities, and Guru Nanak is credited with miracles such as restoring a wheat field and being shaded by a cobra. Hindu saints and yogis are often believed to possess siddhis, including levitation, mind-reading, and control over natural elements. Figures such as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Mata Amritanandamayi, Prahlad Jani, Jalaram Bapa, and Sathya Sai Baba have all been associated with miraculous phenomena such as healing, clairvoyance, levitation, or surviving without food. In Jainism, Mahavira was believed to attain omniscience, and saints such as Shanti Suri were known for healing abilities.

Chinese religious traditions also emphasize supernatural transformation. Daoist practitioners sought immortality and spiritual powers through meditation and ritual practices, and legendary immortals were believed to heal illnesses, perform exorcisms, become invisible, and communicate with spirits. The philosopher Laozi was later revered as an immortal figure, while Zhang Daoling was credited with miraculous healings and exorcisms. Modern spiritual movements such as Falun Gong also claim that advanced practitioners may develop paranormal abilities.
Similar miracle traditions appear in Japan and other new religions. For example, Nakayama Miki claimed healing abilities after becoming possessed by a divine spirit. Across cultures and historical periods, these accounts reflect a recurring theme: religious founders, saints, and mystics are often portrayed as possessing extraordinary powers that demonstrate spiritual authority or divine favor.

Other religious movements also attribute supernatural abilities to their founders or saints. Baháʼu’lláh was credited with miraculous healings, while Joseph Smith taught that believers could exorcise demons, heal the sick, and even raise the dead.

Christian apologist: Lip trill! These stories mean nothing. I doubt there is a shred of real history or fact in them. Having never researched any of them, I can still say that these stories are clearly fictional. Magic tricks may have been performed. In other cases, people could have hallucinated. People see things that are not actually there. The authors could have fabricated material for proselytising purposes, for example, to instil faith in believers. Stories grow over time; legends develop. 

TM: Jesus healed many physical and mental illnesses, including blindness, paralysis, and leprosy. He expelled demons from individuals believed to be possessed, restoring them to normal health and behaviour. Jesus demonstrated authority over nature, such as calming a storm, walking on water, and multiplying food to feed large crowds. Several stories describe him restoring life to the dead, including the daughter of Jairus, the widow’s son at Nain, and Lazarus.

Christian apologist: Hallelujah! That is our Lord! Clearly, he did all those things: we have the eyewitnesses who wrote the gospels to prove it!

TM: Extraordinary signs in the heavens were believed to accompany the births of remarkable individuals. Thus, signs and omens are attributed to the births of many religious figures. Zarathustra was born surrounded by blazing light. As a newborn, he did not cry but laughed and spoke to God. The birth of Moses was marked by the entire house filling with light. At Mohammed’s birth, many strange and miraculous signs proclaimed heaven’s triumph over satanic spirits. A supernatural voice announced Mohammed to his mother while he was still in her womb. At his birth, a brilliant light shone over the whole world from east to west. When the founder of Jainism, Mahavira, was born, "there was a divine lustre originated by many descending and ascending gods and goddesses".

Christian apologist: Those are just stories. I am sure there is nothing to corroborate any of those. People make things up!

TM: According to the gospels, Jesus' birth was accompanied by heavenly signs. The star of Bethlehem guided sages, or magi, to the birthplace of Jesus. There is no real evidence for this phenomenon that would fit the story.

Christian apologist: Nevertheless that is what actually happened! This was a sign from God and is accurately reported in the Bible.

TM: Shortly after proclaiming his successor, the founder of the Sikh religion, Guru Nanak died in Kartarpur in 1539 at the age of 70. There was a dispute among his followers as to how his last rites should be performed. Both Hindus and Muslims wanted to claim his body for their respective burial customs. When the arguing Hindus and Muslims tugged at the sheet covering Nanak’s body, they found a pile of fresh flowers instead. The Hindus and Muslims then decided to share the flowers and perform their respective funeral rites.

The Baha’i Herald, Báb, was sentenced to death by firing squad in the city square of Tabriz, Iran in 1850. When the shots were fired, however, the Báb was seen by witnesses who saw him unharmed standing next to his companion Mirza Muhammad-Ali in another part of the courtyard. The bullets had not touched them. This event is referred to as the "miracle of the Báb's execution." The Bahais see this event as a confirmation of his status as a Manifestation of God.

Christian apologist: I have never even heard of these people. Therefore, their lives and deaths must be meaningless. Why should I care what supposedly happened? People hallucinate all the time and misinterpret normal and natural events. Anything could have happened.

In the Mahabharata and the Bhagavata Purana, the death of Lord Krishna is described. It is said that he was accidentally hit by an arrow in the sole of his foot and left his earthly form to return to his divine abode of Dwarka. After his death, various supernatural events occurred, including floods and strong winds.

The Greek philosopher Plutarch reports in his Parallel Lives (Caesar, 63,69) that at the time of Julius Caesar's death, there were lights in the heavens, crashing sounds, and birds of omen coming down to the forum. After his death, a comet was seen for a week, and the sun's rays were obscured for a whole year. Many other authors, like Vergil, Ovid, Dio Cassius, and Tibullus , described the portents to Caesar's death. They included an eclipse, earthquakes, as well as comets and thunderbolts from a clear sky, an eruption of Etna, and animals talking.

Christian apologist: Silly stories. Clearly, ancient authors dramatized and exaggerated their accounts to make them more engaging for their readers. It means nothing. Why should I believe any of this?

TM: According to the gospels, at the time of his death, the sky darkened, the earth shook and the curtain in the temple was torn. Mark 15:33 says that from the sixth hour (about noon) until the ninth hour (about 3 p.m.) “darkness came over the whole land.” Mark 15:38: “The curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom.” Matthew 27:51 states that “the earth shook and the rocks were split.” Matthew reports that even the dead rose from their graves to walk the streets of Jerusalem.

Christian apologist: All of that occurred at the exact moment Jesus died on the cross. The whole of creation shook as the saviour died! You may ask why no one else reported these events, including the so-called zombie hordes. Well, those who walked the streets of Jerusalem were so freshly risen that no one noticed they had been dead!

This hypothetical discussion raises the question: Why should one believe that a particular ancient miracle story is true, while others like it are dismissed as "just myth, folklore, legend, hallucination, or magic tricks"? The double standards are so blatantly obvious that it is painful even to mention them. These miracle stories are not subjected to any comparative or rational analysis; they are accepted on the basis of religious identity. Apologists simply rationalise their assumed faith in certain Bronze or Iron Age miracle stories from the Bible, while flatly ignoring similar miracle stories elsewhere as myth, legend, folklore, hallucinations, or magic tricks. This approach is not about genuine truth-seeking, but about subjectively justifying one’s religious assumptions and identity-based worldview through wishful thinking and motivated reasoning. Mind you, if you changed the responder from a Christian to a Muslim or a Hindu, the basic content would remain the same. The miracle stories of other religions are treated with indifference and hyper-scepticism, while those of one's own religion are accepted without question. Similar stories, with similar evidence (if it can be called that), are treated with extreme prejudice and are most often dismissed immediately, without so much as a glance.

LIP TRILL!